Monday, July 31, 2006

Benificent Israel

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This from Haaretz.com via Left I on the News:


97 fatalities in Gaza, but all eyes are on Lebanon

By Avi Issacharoff

The Israel Defense Forces has killed 97 people in the Gaza Strip since the fighting began in Lebanon. Most of them were armed, and the rest were civilians - children, women, men, the elderly. The large number of fatalities suggests the IDF is engaged in indiscriminate killing under the cover of the war in the north.

Some Gaza Strip residents say, however, that the military pressure is not as bad as it was before the fighting in Lebanon began on July 12.

"The IDF is concentrating on Hezbollah," says Amjad, a Fatah activist in the Gaza Strip.

He says the problem is not the force the IDF is exerting but the absence of media coverage. "Last Wednesday 23 Palestinians were shot dead near Sajaiya, and even the Arab TV channels were busy with the nine IDF soldiers who were killed. In the past such a large number of fatalities would have raised an international storm. Today nobody counts how many Palestinians are killed."

Read the entire article.

OK, I've been paying attention and I haven't heard a damn thing about the 23 killed at Sajaiya.

I also didn't know the toll was 97. I knew it was high but....

Nice to know that it's much, much worse than any of us realized.

Pamela, vampiress from Atlas Shrugs, is in Israel for the fireworks. This woman is a piece of work. She writes:

Returning to my room and turning on the news (No FOX!), I can not make it official, CNN (Crescent News Network) makes Goebbels propaganda look like childs play. At least then we knew it was Naza state propaganda but CNN is "independent" They are anything but. They are jihad TV. Their portrayal of events in Lebanon are such lies, such Jew hatred -- it is nothing short of frightening. Nothing is as they say it is.It is as if they are getting their talking points straight from Hezb'Allah. If I hear the "Israeli war machine" one more time, I'll scream. It's a handful of Jews fighting for their lives. Where are the news reports of the bombing of Nahariyah Hospital and the destruction of its fourth floor and the Department of Eye Diseases, in which Arabs and Jews have been treated, and where Arab and Jewish interns wor? All this whining about the Lebanese people not having enough money to leave their towns (as the benificent Israel has told them to do.) Tell Hezb'Allah to stop buying armaments and bombs and buyt their human shields a one way ticket out.

CNN screaming all day for a HUDNA so that the jihadis can rearm. Sick, sick, sick. Why? For access as they did by covering for Saddams heinous acts of barbarism? These CNN dhimmis will be the first ones getting their pretty little heads chopped off if the savages they are supporting should win. A CEASEFIRE IS A DEATH SENTENCE FOR iSRAEL.

"All this whining about the Lebanese people not having enough money to leave their towns (as the benificent Israel has told them to do,)"

You mean the people ordered from their homes prior to having them razed by the IDF? The people targeted by Iraeli jets as they flee?

Benificent Israel?

29 Comments:

Anonymous Nemo said...

Now here's a directly related question that demands an answer -- in FAR more than words: How Can "Terrorism" Be Condemned While War Crimes Go Without Rebuke? : Washington's partners in this hypocritical war on terror are given free reign to wreak their own brutal, illegal violence., by David Clark [former Labour government adviser] The Guardian / UK

Tue Aug 01, 02:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Re: Pamela, vampiress from Atlas Shrugs ==== Robert: Don't you begin to wonder at times how *many* of these right-wing "correspondents" are actually just paid Fascist propagandists? I mean, we know very well the extensive breadth of the Right-Wing Noise Machine. Talon News, Matt Drudge, and a few other rightist bloggers have been flagged in the past for being reimbursed Republikan stooges. And of course there was the Armstrong Williams (et al.), paid MSM journalist scam. ==== I'm not saying their claims are anything less than outrageous. But quite often, they're also *clearly* dishonest. "The news is lying", she says?? That goes WAY beyond any reasonable semblance of "journalism". And who exactly paid this bimbo's way to Israel to have her spout such nonsense? It seems quite possible to me that the woman may actually be a paid shill! That being the case ... ==== To give you a stunning historical perspective on this type of subversion -- though the essay occasionally professes some rather dubious generalizations in support of the "war effort" -- here's a compelling piece from one of FDR's vice presidents: The Danger of American Fascism, by Henry A. Wallace [New York Times; 09 April 1944] ==== ... American fascism will not be really dangerous until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information, and those who stand for the K.K.K. type of demagoguery. ... ==== [Sound familiar? And the rest is also well worth the read, despite its flaws.]

Tue Aug 01, 03:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

{GASP!} The Israeli military now fully appears to have LIED! Should we be surpised?: 'No Hezbollah Rockets Fired from Qana' [IPS] ==== Red Cross workers and residents of Qana, where Israeli bombing killed at least 60 civilians, have told IPS that no Hezbollah rockets were launched from the city before the Israeli air strike. ==== The Israeli military has said it bombed the building in which several people had taken shelter, more than half of them children, because the Army had faced rocket fire from Qana. The Israeli military has said that Hezbollah was therefore responsible for the deaths. ... ==== Qana had been a shelter because no rockets were being fired from there, survivors said. "When Hezbollah fires their rockets, everyone runs away because they know an Israeli bombardment will come soon," Abdel said. "That is why everyone stayed in the shelter and nearby homes, because we all thought we'd be all right since there were no Hezbollah fighters in Qana." ==== Lebanese Red Cross workers in the nearby coastal city of Tyre told IPS that there was no basis for Israeli claims that Hezbollah had launched rockets from Qana. ==== "We found no evidence of Hezbollah fighters in Qana," Kassem Shaulan, a 28-year-old medic and training manager for the Red Cross in Tyre told IPS at their headquarters. "When we rescue people or recover bodies from villages, we usually see rocket launchers or Hezbollah fighters if they are there, but in Qana I can say that the village was 100 percent clear of either of those." ... ==== [Look up "butcher" in the dictionary nowadays, and you *should* see a picture of an Israeli pilot.]

Wed Aug 02, 02:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Barnita said...

I know there are more important issues at hand in Lebanon right now, but read this as well.

Wed Aug 02, 05:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Barnita: Well, that surely adds "insult to injury". (Actually, "INJURY to injury" is more like it.) ==== Thanks for sharing that. And now I also have to wonder : Are the Israelis, too, using "depleted" Uranium munitions in their current bloodbaths? The damage, present and virtually permanent, induced in Iraq by the US use of such "dirty munitions" (think "dirty bomb" -- same idea!) has already been extensive. ==== Mind you, I don't mean in any way to detract from the extreme significance of that unabated spill. It just got me thinking in broader environmental terms as well. Most of mankind's *worst* nightmares , it seems, are wholly man-made!

Wed Aug 02, 09:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Could someone please explain to me, in rational terms, WHY the Lebanese Army has *continued* to stand down in the face of these utterly brutal Israeli assaults against the nation of Lebanon at large?? I mean, in our country the word "Defense" has admittedly become a sick joke, as applied to our strictly aggressive, Imperial military. But Lebanon here has undeniable claim to "just cause" in defending itself against this civilian carnage and mass invasion by Israel. And its idle troops are nevertheless *still* taking casualties from deliberate Israeli strikes!!! ==== This isn't *about* Hezbollah alone; it *hasn't* been since Day One, when Israel initiated its flagrantly disproportional campaign of "collective punishment" against the *whole* of Lebanon. ==== Question: What kind of government merely "tolerates" organized savagery by an external aggressor nation against its land and people without lifting a finger in appropriate military response? Answer: One which will *very* soon be out of power! ==== So much for the "Cedar Revolution", eh? Seems to me the Bush Regime's whole intention in pressuring Syria to leave Lebanon may well have been to make the latter an easier "target" for the Zionist invaders! (As we now well know from Juan Cole, this Israeli putsch was anything but a "spontaneous" development. It's been "in the works" for years!): Hezbollah Fires Over 200 Rockets Into Israel [New York Times] ==== Hezbollah guerrillas fired more than 200 rockets into Israel today, a record number, even as Israel poured thousands of troops backed by tanks and armored bulldozers into fierce fighting along the border. ... ==== In the most aggressive fighting thus far, helicopter-borne Israeli commandoes raided some 60 miles into Lebanon in the middle of the night, striking a hospital financed by Iranian money in the Hezbollah stronghold of Baalbeck, in the Bekaa valley near the Syrian border. ... ==== The hospital was pockmarked with bullets this afternoon, and burned-out cars and the remnants of grenades and brass shell casings testified to the wild firefight. ==== But in the nearby hamlet of al-Jamaliyeh, villagers said at least 15 civilians were killed during Israeli airstrikes providing cover to the commandos. The dead included seven members of one family caught in their backyard. A front-loader's scoop was used to carry away the dead, and mourners in a funeral procession carried pictures of the Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrullah. ==== Much of southern Lebanon was a landscape of destruction today, with smoke rising from shelled villages, roads cratered and littered with ruined cars. Israeli soldiers, including paratroopers, clawed their way less than four miles into Lebanon, meeting stiff resistance from guerillas setting ambushes and firing from hidden positions. ==== Even the Lebanese Army, which has stood apart from the battles, was taking casualties. An Israeli airstrike at a base near Sidon killed three Lebanese soldiers today, making a total of 24 soldiers killed during the conflict. ...

Thu Aug 03, 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Barnita said...

I suppose that the hospital must be run by and for Hezbollah so that makes it ok to attack it. How sad when 2 of the world's most "developed" nations support such an act. Its time we redefine the terms used to categorize contries - developed, developing and under-developed countries no longer ring true.

Thu Aug 03, 04:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Never Again! (Unless you're Palestinian, or Lebanese) said...

19 Israeli civilians killed so far. That leaves only 5,999,981 assholes left to go.

Thu Aug 03, 03:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Now here's a compelling, erudite list [see full article] of projections for the Middle East that far surpasses the "plausibility" of the fraudulent, mindless Pollyanna-ism ladled out by the Bush Reich's spokespersons. Clearly, we are on the Wrong side of history -- current and future: Future History: A Glimpse of What U.S. Lebanon Policy Could Spawn, by Lawrence Pintak ==== It is very likely that the world will look back at the summer of 2006 as a seminal moment in Middle East history. ==== We may well be seeing, as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says, "the birth pangs of a new Middle East." But it is also quite possible a monster will be born. ... ==== This is, President Bush tells us, "a moment of opportunity." The question history will decide is, for whom?

Thu Aug 03, 11:08:00 PM  
Blogger Again said...

nemo
Could someone please explain to me, in rational terms, WHY the Lebanese Army has *continued* to stand down in the face of these utterly brutal Israeli assaults against the nation of Lebanon at large?? I

in simple words?

they can't fight against the whole world - and they know that no one will help them

they simply face a "natural distaster" like the Tsunami (but as you mentioned somewhere: purely man-made) - if they would fight, Israel would be allowed to openly declare war and to stop pretending being the "Benificent Israel", as Robert called it, because then Israel would say "look at Lebanon, they help the evilevilevil terrarists" and then the imbecile boy on the throne of the mightiest power on Earth would jump and skip and shout with joy "let me throw the nuke, let me throw the nuke" - and the "Whore of Babylon", the bootlicking Europeans, would look the other way round (but! with deep red face because of shame) and say: "oh, if only the evilevilevil Arabians would stop to support the terrarists"....

and then ALL Lebanon would be washed away by the "loving tolerant warriors" of the "loving tolerant god" of the Xians (that's how you write them?)....

it's simply the only way to survive for at least SOME Lebanese - not to enter the war...

and all the world knows (at least all the world outside the American Propaganda Machine), especially the Arabian World...

now imagine...

imagine that the Arabian World sees the unjustice very well - and also understands the reason, why Lebanon MUST NOT DEFEND herself - and also knows why their own leaders prefer to kiss ass of the imbecile or the Whore of Babylon...

imagine the feeling of "helplessness and vulnerability" they must have...

and remember the argumentation, why Israel now is doing that war? Because of a "deep, irrational" feeling of vulnerability, the national memory of being helpless victims...

Thu Aug 03, 11:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

"Its time we redefine the terms used to categorize contries - developed, developing and under-developed countries no longer ring true. ==== Barnita: It seems that "rapacious", "resistant", and "submissive" would define a far more realistic spectrum, though it's hardly a *one-to-one* correspondence. But certainly the old "civilized" / "uncivilized" dichotomy of the past should be considered an utterly hollow joke! ==== Regarding the hospital attack, one report suggested that a prominent Hezbollah leader had just passed through the town. "Undoubtedly", Israeli intelligence must have concluded he'd gone there to get a "check-up";-(. (But seriously, any old excuse would probably suffice for the Zionist hordes of "Olmert Khan". They made their "commitment" to international law and the rules of war *abundantly* clear from the very start!) >8^{

Thu Aug 03, 11:45:00 PM  
Blogger Again said...

nemo
Future History: A Glimpse of What U.S. Lebanon Policy Could Spawn, by Lawrence Pintak

you take the words right out of my post ;-)

yes, Mr. Pintak, that's exactly what violence creates: "a new terrorist force", new monsters so that the violence-users can't be prepared against it...

reminds me of the Maginot Line, the "Limes" of France against Germany - and what happens? The Germans laughed about it and invaded France through Belgium...

that's the justice of Mother Nature: use your brain or die...


Clearly, we are on the Wrong side of history

yes, we are...

and believe me, it's not fun after the mentally disabled fuehrers left the theatre...

Thu Aug 03, 11:46:00 PM  
Blogger Again said...

barnita, nemo
should be considered an utterly hollow joke!


nemo, you know, that's exactly my last post on my blog - but i guess, it's not the term "developed countries" which must be redefined...

it's simply the fact, that formerly developed countries can become "underdeveloped" again - to be developed is not a stable state, once reached guaranteed forever ...

did you follow my links - about what developed countries must offer their citizens? Like (basic levels of) justice and the ability to live? IMHO America doesn't fulfill the term "developed country" any longer

because the simple fact of "high income per capita" doesn't make a country developed - Saudi Arabia has surely a "high income per capita" but no one considers that country as "developed"

that the rich can defend their rights, that the rich can have medicine, water, food, homes and electricity (!!!) is truth everywhere on Earth, that doesn't make a country "developed"

that the common people can (at least) feel like living in a just country, that the common people can have something like a good life, that makes a country developed...

but look at America now! They use children as guinea pigs as if children of poor people are something "subhuman" with only one reason to live: "to please the rich" - and even the electricity is no longer something reliable for the common people in America. If you are not a "HaveMore" you can sweat and die of heat (like Riverbend in Bagdhad) because of the ooutdated, private-based infrastructure (it's simply not "profitable" to modernize something for poor Joe Sixpack) - that's not the definition of an developed country...

Fri Aug 04, 12:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

"that's exactly what violence creates: "a new terrorist force" ==== Again: Agreed, with one slight clarification from my own perspective. I would stipulate that it's actually state-sponsored *terrorism*, which the US and Israel have so freely engaged in , which creates the new "terrorist" force (i.e., ANTI-state guerrillas). All the US and Israel have seemingly accomplished with their unbridled aggressions is the establishment of a wholly *justified* casus belli for future Fourth Generation Warriors! Now, whether such forces would seek to restrict their efforts to militarily significant targets, or merely "respond in kind" by purposefully targeting civilians (thereby legitimately *earning* the title of "terrorists") is not predictable. But they've certainly been given *solid* justification for such retaliatory strikes, much as Hezbollah itself has. (Alas, at whatever point the seemingly "inevitable" consequences of such miltary brutality should befall the US, the Bush Reich will seize upon it as supposed "proof" of the wisdom of its "war on terror", rather than coming to the appropriate conclusion that one cannot expect to oppress a people indefinitely with impunity.). ==== Regarding the Maginot Line -- I was just thinking about it the other night, though I can't recall why -- what stikes me as *particularly* absurd about those fortifications (constructed along the German and Italian borders alone!) is that Germany had rather successfully invaded through Belgium, in a virtually identical manner, during the First World War, just 25 years earlier! Nothing that had occurred in the intervening years, as far as I know, would have undermined the strategic merit of the Schlieffen Plan previously used! And yet, France ostensibly assumed that it simply "couldn't happen again". Yet that's *exactly* what happened, and -- more importantly -- it should have been fully *expected*!

Fri Aug 04, 03:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Again: To explain my conceptual framework for the above -- I'm becoming far more strict in my own terminology, due to the astounding proliferation of shamelessly two-faced NewSpeak in the media lately -- see: Four forms of terrorism, by Hall Gardner -AND- The Four Generations of Modern War, by William S. Lind. ==== Particularly in the latter case, I don't necessarily support all of the author's views. But I do find the constructs elaborated in both these articles fairly indispensible for "cutting through all the crap" that the media and Bush Reich have disseminated in their propaganda campaigns. The word "terrorism" especially, has been reduced to a mere "political football", tossed about indiscriminately without any obvious deference to its true meaning. (Of course, that fits the Bush Regime's agenda quite well -- "Terrorist : ANYONE we don't like".)

Fri Aug 04, 04:48:00 AM  
Anonymous B said...

I finally made it out of the cocoon. It's good to see the old familiar names.

I've discovered a Lebanese blog group you all should check out.

http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/

Fri Aug 04, 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger Again said...

b
I finally made it out of the cocoon.

greetings! Nice to see you. Hope you are fine (at least as fine as possible)?

Fri Aug 04, 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous b said...

Hi Again,

Other than my body melting from the heat and becoming almost skeletal, I'm fine, thanks. And you?

Fri Aug 04, 09:35:00 PM  
Blogger Again said...

b
Other than my body melting from the heat and becoming almost skeletal, I'm fine

oh, you call it "fine", "melting and becoming skeletal"? Oh, i understand! "Opposite" logic...

b, life here is so hard! Frozen at temperatures about 20-25° C, sunny weather with rain in the night, fighting with overweight because of the great fresh meals with fruits and tomatoes and aubergines from the own garden - and a great programming language "discovered", hardly to bear...

but to be serious - are you still sick? And regarding the heat - do you also have problems with electricity in Portual (as in New York and California)? - and...

how hot is it???

Sat Aug 05, 09:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Hello, B! Marvelous to see you "out and about" again! I have to admit, I definitely missed your "smiling face". ==== BTW, Highest praise on that Lebanon piece (with link to devastating photos) you did recently on your blog, which Barnita and Robert commended here. You definitely haven't lost the "spark"!.==== And if it's any "consolation" to you, I'm melting right along with you, though I'm nowhere near "skeletal" yet. We just came out of a several-day killer heat wave here. (It's quite telling when you feel the need to guzzle literally gallons of cold water a day, yet only have to "irrigate" once or twice Phew!) We haven't lost electricity, as Again pointed out has occurred in nearby NY, but we're a "fan-only" household, so it's still quite rigorous when the heat index hits 110 F.

Sat Aug 05, 09:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Not that I'm at all surprised, the illustrious Robert Fisk has surpassed my own thoughts above. The excerpt is but a taste of a truly commendable piece of impassioned reporting: A Terrible Thought Occurs to Me - That There Will Be Another 9/11, by Robert Fisk [lndependent/UK]: ==== ... What in the meanwhile is happening to Lebanon? Bridges and buildings can be reconstructed - with European Union loans, no doubt - but many Lebanese are now questioning the institutions of the democracy for which the US was itself so full of praise last year. What is the point of a democratically elected Lebanese government which cannot protect its people? What is the point of a 75,000-member Lebanese army which cannot protect its nation, which cannot be sent to the border, which does not fire on Lebanon's enemies and which cannot disarm Hizbollah? Indeed, for many Lebanese Shias, Hizbollah is now the Lebanese army. ... ==== [Again: This perhaps puts the spin I fully intended on the original question. Under the circumstances, it seems to me that though Israel may not have openly declared war on Lebanon per se, it is is nevertheless purposefully engaged in a TOTAL WAR against the entirety of that nation. And faced with a choice of gradual annihilation or active resistance, I know I'd expect my (hypothetical) government to forcibly defend the country. Else, as the man said, what's an army for??]

Sat Aug 05, 10:08:00 PM  
Blogger Again said...

nemo
Again: This perhaps puts the spin I fully intended on the original question

i guess, i know what you mean

actually, everytime i watch TV-news i realize that they only talk about two parties - Israel and Hezbollah...

but they always, always forget, that there is a third party: the nation of Lebanon, an existing legal body, which is attacked by war without having openly declared war itself. And i guess, that's simply because of the fact, that the UN and all the western vassals of the Big Imbecile would be forced to accept that the fact of an armed assault against a nation without being attacked by that nation is fulfilled -

and that would mean, that they had to stop Israel...

but they CAN'T STOP Israel - because - you know - to stop Israel is directly linked to what? To approve Hitler! And to approve Hitler means to approve killing of innocent, of babies and mothers and civilians and...

so we allow killing of innocent, of babies and mothers and civilians to SHOW that we are AGAINST KILLING of of innocent, of babies and mothers and civilians!!!

So you see - it's good, what we do by not using our brains, just following orders of our leaders telling us how good it is to not approve Hitler by...

(so Hitler dominates politics even after 60 years (or at least is used as perfectly working excuse...
sounds truly like a circulus vitiosus of stupitidy?? i guess, that's just because it IS - but what do you expect of a world leaded by the Big Imbecile???
and isn't it nice - facing real Doomsday with Global Warming, we are not capable of anything rational, but only of brainless violence...

Homo Homini Lupus - hope, you have fun with your beloved war, Must be a good feeling to know that the last thing you will see is "killing of innocent, of babies and mothers and civilians "...

nice dying, humankind...)

Sun Aug 06, 01:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... but they CAN'T STOP Israel - because - you know - to stop Israel is directly linked to what? To approve Hitler! ... ==== Again: I may not be following you here, but I feel compelled to disagree with that statement as it appears. (You may just be parroting the "Conventional Wisdom" on Israel, which is heavily propagandistic.by design. But I don't believe that's reflective of the actual, underlying *political* motives.) ==== The implied "linkage" -- that stopping Israel is somehow akin to "approving Hitler" -- seems as baseless to me as the notion that criticizing Israel is "inherently anti-semitic". The two things are only loosely related by the disjunct facts that Hitler persecuted the Jews (and just as *many* people of other races -- Slavs, Romani, etc.!) and that Jews constitute the apartheid dominants in Israel. But Israel does not represent the totality or coality.

Hell, they are even going to fly us to Shonai aiport, the region that is our new home, and then hold a slew of parties in our honor and then an orientation at a ski resort. Crazy...

I have a story or two to share about the NO orientation that I haven't gotten to which I'll post later. Right now, Jessica wants my attention back.
hich I'll post later. Right now, Jessica wants my attention back.

Mon Aug 07, 01:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

... but they CAN'T STOP Israel - because - you know - to stop Israel is directly linked to what? To approve Hitler! ... ==== Again: I may not be following you here, but I feel compelled to disagree with that statement as it appears. (You may just be parroting the "Conventional Wisdom" on Israel, which is heavily propagandistic.by design. But I don't believe that's reflective of the actual, underlying *political* motives.) ==== The implied "linkage" -- that stopping Israel is somehow akin to "approving Hitler" -- seems as baseless to me as the notion that criticizing Israel is "inherently anti-semitic". The two things are only loosely related by the disjunct facts that Hitler persecuted the Jews (and just as *many* people of other races -- Slavs, Romani, etc.!) and that Jews constitute the apartheid dominants in Israel. But Israel does not represent the totality or consensus of Jews (even those *in* Israel), nor did Hitler obviously persecute any then *non-existent* Israelis -- NO state has, insofar as I know, though Israel has relentlessly persecuted others, most notably the Palestinians.==== That particular insinuation is more representative of the type of "pimping" of the Holocaust -- as Stan Goff aptly put it -- that Israel has done repeatedly, to facetiously "excuse" its *own* atrocities. And in my own mind, that excuse no longer holds much water. ==== Israel is simply a nation! And any nation that cannot coexist with its neighbors is ultimately doomed to failure, one way or another. The *actual* reason Israel has never had to face any official criticism or sanctions for its various abuses is simply that it has been thoroughly *shielded* from same repeatedly by the veto power of the US in the UN Security Council! The UN as a whole has sought again and again to rein in Israel's aggressions and other infractions of international law, only to be stymied by innately political US interference having little to do with any discernible "moral" stance. (To the contrary, those roadblocks imposed by the US have most often been surfically *immoral* and completely at odds with global opinion.) ==== At this point, I think Hitler has very *little* to do with anything that's going on in the Middle East, except for whatever tactical inspirations his Reich provided to the current NeoConNazis, among whom Israel's right-wing leadership is decidely a part. Moreover, the Zionist push for a "Jewish homeland" LONG preceded the Holocaust. It was very *nearly* fulfilled following the First World War, via the Balfour Declaration, wthout *any* such sweeping humanitarian "justifications". (That particular betrayal of prior promises -- for an independent *Arab* nation in the Hejaz -- made to the Arab forces engaged against the Ottoman Turks was itself superseded by yet another duplicitous betrayal of both -- the Sykes-Picot Agreement!) Considering the grievous severity of the promises already broken by the West to the Arabs -- who had fought and died to achieve their goal -- the callous awarding of *other* people's lands in Palestine for a "Jewish homeland" was an astounding slap in the face to the people of the Middle East, and was quite possibly one of the most wrong-headed gestures of "beneficence" ever made. And in my mind, it has proven a mistake ever since, with Israel itself typically playing the "heavy" against the rightful occupants of those lands (and adjacent ones). ==== I'm neither anti-semitic nor dismissive of the *potential* wisdom that might have once uderlain the formation of a "Jewish state". But history itself has clearly indicated that the choices made in pursuit of that goal merely indulged one group of people at the extreme detriment of another -- without so much as a "May we?" -- and generated a seemingly unresolvable conflict. . .

Mon Aug 07, 02:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

There it goes again!! Somehow Blogger has once more managed to fuse a "partial" of my last post (just above it) with God knows what. Bizarre! (Perhaps a flaw in the covert NSA patch-in?? It looks like part of an *email*.) ;-)

Mon Aug 07, 02:13:00 AM  
Blogger Again said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Mon Aug 07, 03:18:00 AM  
Blogger Again said...

(ooops, sorry, had to delete the post, because it didn't look like i wanted it ;-) )

nemo
(You may just be parroting the "Conventional Wisdom" on Israel, which is heavily propagandistic.by design. But I don't believe that's reflective of the actual, underlying *political* motives.) ==== The implied "linkage" -- that stopping Israel is somehow akin to "approving Hitler" -- seems as baseless to me as the notion that criticizing Israel is "inherently anti-semitic".

hmmm - "from a distance" it might look like you say, but Hitler is more alive than you think, i fear. Even Iran "uses" him - remember Ahmadinejad saying, that Hitler should better have fulfilled the job of killing jews (or something like that)? And why do you think do Israel wish for a German UN-troop? Because she knows that Germany never ever can do or say something against Israel. You should visit Germany when someone dares to criticize Israel! I guess, the german Jews are the best citizens of Israel ;-)

from same repeatedly by the veto power of the US in the UN Security Council!

that's something i often wondered about - the perfect obedience of the US, the Superpower, regarding Israel. America does things even against her very own interests to protect Israel. Is it all about the power in Middle East and the oil? So much that America allows herself to be openly humiliated?

"I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.


At this point, I think Hitler has very *little* to do with anything that's going on in the Middle East

regarding excuses and manipulations? don't underestimate the still existing feeling of humiliation in France and Britain - the Brits do attack little german boys with accusations of Jews-killing until today - oh yes, that's "fine" hate, you can say, and this will not work regarding "positive" feelings as to help the victims, but i guess, a poodle like Blair, who needs each and every argument for his bush-bootlicking, can't care much about "baselessness" - he will take anything which makes his Brits angry...

Moreover, the Zionist push for a "Jewish homeland" LONG preceded the Holocaust.

yes, but as far as i know, the realization - the "gift" of GB and the support by America...

btw - i never knew when that unconditional support started, found that link, sounding reasonable to me: America and Israel: You and Me against the World - can you please tell me, what you think about? And please, ignore the emotional bias and cynicism, it's not really bad and it's understandable if you look at the name of the author ;-)

any nation that cannot coexist with its neighbors is ultimately doomed to failure, one way or another.

on that, you will never hear one word of contradiction from me


to b:

hope you are far away from the fires!!!

Mon Aug 07, 03:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Nemo said...

Re: "America and Israel: You and Me against the World" ==== Again: Though it *is* exceedingly generalized in parts -- particularly in its seemingly sweeping indictment of "Jews" -- and in other ways understandably cynical, as you said, that commentary overall has the *unmistakable* ring of truth about it, in my mind. We in the US now seem throroughly dominated by an official policy of scraping deferrence to Israel's most sordid desires, regardless of the genuine realities of that nation's current and past savagery. ==== Such overarching allegiance by the US government to a military oppressor nation *is* a direct affront to the higher ideals of Americans, which traditionally embraced positions of support for the "oppressed underdog", the "little guy", the David in the Goliath story -- undoubtedly a result of our own perceived stature during the Revolutionary War of 1776. ==== But in the case of Israel's *numerous* aggressions and acts of defiance -- in clear violation of international law -- such popular sentiments are totally perverted via the utterly facetious "casting" of Israel as an innocent "victim" when it is earnestly acting as deliberate perpetrator and unbridled aggressor. That fits the underdog "tradition", but it's fallacious in the extreme -- sheer propoganda by design! ==== I can't vouch for all of the historical assertions there, but those I am familiar with *are* truthfully relayed, albeit with fierce accompanying anger (deservedly, I might add). Myself, I've often felt that the US should either resign or be *forced* out of the UN for its own charter violations and the expressed intentions of the NeoCons to *scuttle* the effectiveness of that international assemblage as any "altruistic" force. I also feel that the Security Council *veto* power has LONG outlived any semblance of propriety, and should be revoked completely or severely modified -- the former USSR previously "abused" vetos to its own advantage, and the US has since *superseded* it in that regard, lagely due to "running interference" for Israel We obviously should NOT be exhibiting such baselessly fawning favoritism to the Zionist state. It yields us NOTHING but well-deserved enmity! (And the Bush Reich, in its folly, has overturned *decades* of concerted "neutral brokering" in the Middle East in the midst of a situation where such bias is *visibly" unmerited and ultimately EVIL.) === All told, I think the author says a "MOUTHFUL", one which definitely needed to be said and is especially relevant NOW!

Wed Aug 09, 03:11:00 AM  
Blogger Again said...

nemo

a little late, but thanks for the reply - stored it (per Scrapbook!) with the document to be aware of it's "generalizing" (to avoid citing without hesitation, you know ;-) )

Thu Aug 10, 12:49:00 AM  

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